'America Is Better Served By A Religiously Vibrant Christianity' <i>An Interview with Rabbi Daniel Lapin</i> ,Elliot Resnick, <i>Jewish Press Staff Reporter</i>

To some non-Jews, he is simply "America's rabbi." Rabbi Daniel Lapin -- great-nephew of the widely revered mussar personality, Reb Elya Lapian -- lectures across America to audiences both Jewish and Christian, produces audio CDs on such issues as marriage, the Ten Commandments, and the ill effects of vulgar speech, and disseminates a weekly e-mail called Thought Tools.

The South African-born rabbi, who received semicha from England's Gateshead yeshiva, Israel's Kfar Chassidim yeshiva, and Ner Yisroel's Rabbi Yaakov Yitzchok Ruderman, also hosts a weekly TV and radio show and has authored several books, including Buried Treasure: Secrets for Living from the Lord's Language and Thou Shall Prosper: Ten Commandments for Making Money.

He currently heads the American Alliance of Jews and Christians.

The Jewish Press recently interviewed him after he returned home from the Second Annual Torah Home Education Conference in Baltimore. He and his wife home-schooled all seven of their children.

The Jewish Press: How did you get started lecturing to mostly Christian audiences about Torah values and modern-day society?

Rabbi Lapin: When I arrived in the United States in 1973, I was intrigued by the number of places with biblical names - Salem, Hebron, Bethlehem, etc.

So I started studying the founding of America and discovered that the Bible used in colonial churches quoted Jewish sources like Rashi and Rambam in their notes about a third of the time. I also discovered the widespread intimate knowledge of Hebrew among the founders and their love of the Old Testament. Ezra Styles, who was the president of Yale University, referred to Yale as "our New England beit midrash," which is remarkable.

Then, as the years went by, I realized that most Christians in America were deeply baffled how the people who stood at the foot of Mt. Sinai could be the same people aggressively promoting such matters as abortion, homosexual marriage and the widespread growth of pornography. I realized that somebody needed to help them see a difference between Jewish values and the things that many Jews do. That's how I got started.

In your speeches and writings you promote a more religious American society and culture. What do you say to people who worry that a more religious America would pose a danger to Jews, who historically have been targets of Christian fanaticism?

I think America has provided the most tranquil, prosperous, and durable haven for Jews in the last 2,000 years because it is a [religious] Protestant country, not in spite of it.

Many Jews are not familiar with the difference between Protestantism and Catholicism. They need to understand that there's never been a Protestant pogrom in the history of the world. It's also important to understand the difference between European Christianity and American Christianity.

In general, I also think it's helpful for Jews to recognize that the only reliable group of friends we have in America, or in the world, right now are American Evangelicals. The main threat today is [radical Islam], and the one group standing alongside Jews and supporting the State of Israel is American Evangelicals.

Why do you focus the majority of your speaking and literary efforts on the broader American society rather than solely the Jewish community?

Everyone has their own area of contribution. If I had the ability to give an advanced shiur in a yeshiva three times a day, I'd probably do that, but this happens to be what I think I was created to do at this point in time.

More generally, though, I think we should recognize that we have a stake in America. To not care about broader society is a lot like sitting in a lifeboat while somebody's drilling a hole in the floor of the boat a few seats down, and you say, "Well, as long as my seat's okay, everything's fine." I think it requires a certain cultural and social maturity to recognize that the chalav yisrael pizza parlors and glatt kosher restaurants will go down the tubes if America fails.

What do you mean by America failing?

That it loses its economic, military-defense, and moral defense capabilities. All those three things slide down in a declining culture, and history shows that those sorts of circumstances jeopardize the survival of the Jewish community.

[America is becoming increasingly more secular and] I think Europe is an extremely good model of what happens when secularism wins. Anti-Semitism is an inevitable accompaniment of secularism, and Nazism and communism are essentially the ultimate expressions of liberalism .

I think America is better served by a religiously vibrant Christianity and that means that we have to be as ardent about fighting anti-Christianism as we expect Christians to be in fighting anti-Semitism.

You've written that Jews should wish Christians a "Merry Christmas" on December 25 rather than "Happy Holidays." Why?

Because Christians see "Happy Holidays" as the dominance of the secular culture forcing them to treat the word Christmas as if it's an obscenity. What does it hurt us to be friendly and supportive on that? Is there some halacha that allowing the word Christmas to pass your lips means you have to go to the mikveh?

I don't see why Jews have to rear up like startled horses at the sight of any Christian symbolism. You have to understand that Christians don't know the difference between various Jewish groups any more than Jews know the difference between various Christian groups. They see Chabad erecting menorahs in public places and then they see lawsuits filed by, what they believe to be, the Jewish ACLU every time a Nativity scene is put up in a public place. You can understand that that would lead to resentment.

You're also on record praising Pope Pius XII as a righteous Christian, even though many Jews vilify him for his alleged indifference to saving Jews during the Holocaust. Why?

Because I know some of the background of the vilification campaign. I know who Ralph Hochhuth was and how his [1963] play, "The Deputy," dramatically changed public perception in a direction that was completely improper.

I also know that in spite of the fact that there were substantial and strong and viable Jewish communities in the United States during the time of the Mormon massacres in the middle of the 19^th century, no Jew or synagogue is on record as having stepped forward to try and save Mormons from enraged lynch mobs. As such we've got to be a little careful before we castigate people for not having saved Jews. I'm not sure our record's so wonderful on this.

Why did you write Thou Shall Prosper: Ten Commandments for Making Money? Isn't it strange for a rabbi to write about this topic?

The whole point of that book is to analyze, from a Torah perspective, God's attitude to money. Did money just get invented by vicious, greedy, corrupt human beings while God's attention was distracted elsewhere, or was money intended as part of God's plan for humanity? I argue in the book that it was very much part of His plan.

It certainly is not an accident that throughout the Talmud wealth is seen as an enormous blessing, even to the extent of a definitive statement [in the Talmud] that God's prophetic powers don't rest on anyone who doesn't have wealth. I would associate the idea of "poverty equals virtue" as being Christian, not Jewish.

Why is wealth good in your view?

Because within a transparent and virtuous market place, the only way to create wealth is to supply the goods and services that other human beings want. There's an incredible network of cooperating human beings who, as Adam Smith said, [provide for each other's needs by looking out for their own best interest].

So, in other words, the CEO of Ford may want to make millions of dollars for himself, but in doing so, he's also providing a living for tens of thousands of employees while also providing cars for millions of people.

Yes. I'm not sure that if he were running a non-profit, for instance, or serving in government, that he'd be doing more good for more people than he's doing right now.

Switching topics, why did you and your wife home-school your children?

Because we regard them as our most precious investment. We felt nobody else would be as concerned with them as we were, and we relished the opportunity to imprint our values on them.

What kind of Jews attended the Torah Home Education Conference in Baltimore last month, and what was their motivation in home-schooling their children?

It was the most fascinating and delightful gathering of Judaism. I saw people dressed in full chassidic regalia and people who were Modern Orthodox.

As to their motivations, it's difficult to say for sure, but I think economics played a major part because day school tuition is out of control. In addition, many parents who spoke to me at the conference indicated that they weren't happy with the hashkafos their children were getting in school. They didn't feel their children were getting a comprehensive worldview in which Torah values were integrated with life in general, and in which respect for all people, including non-Jews, was instilled.

Some people worry that home-schooled children will grow up to be socially inept adults. What is your reaction?

First of all, home-schooled children meet regularly, often several times a week, with other home-schooled children in various groups.

Second, there's a myth that somehow there's an advantage in allowing your children to socialize only with people of the same age group and academic level. Home-schooled children get on very well with older people and with all kinds of groups.

Is home-schooling a growing phenomenon in the Orthodox community?

Definitely. The conference was more than twice as big as it was the previous year.

I should say, though, that I'm not on a home-schooling crusade. It was wonderful for our family, and I think many more people could do it than realize they could. But it's not right for everybody.

Read Comments (6)

Lovely message
Date 06:07, 07-9, 10

This is truly an educated,wise and tolerant (not in the PC way, but in a true way) man. I really enjoyed his insights. Thank you for remembering what happened to the Mormons.

Rabbi Lapin / Interview / Mazel Tov.
Date 09:07, 07-10, 10

Mazel Tov !!! to Rabbi Lapin for his accomplishments, he does Tikun Olam with
his speeches and writings. In my humble opinion he represent the true spirit of
Judaism, and spreading the knowledge of Torah to other nations and Christians
is a great accomplishment, because that is the core of Judaism , to teach the Way
of Hashem to all who have ear to listen. I see how Evangelican Christians love him and have great respect for The Nation of Israel and the Jews and Rabbi Lapin is an spiritual Embasador.
From the foundation of USA Jews worked along with the Christians to elevate this Nation to a position of Leadership, and they put their wealth to
solve economical problems and spiritual as well. And as long as the Leadership of this great Nation acknowledges the great contributions of Jews and Christians to this Land from the beginning until now, and respect and embrace the Nation of Israel, will be blessed, otherwise,the future of America is at stake.

Much appreciation.
Fresia James
FL.

Rabi Lapin needs a history lesson of his own
Date 11:07, 07-13, 10

Rabbi Lapin claims that there has never been a protestant pogrom and therefore we should not be worried about protestant religious fervor. This is ridiculous considering that the very founder of protestantism is the German Martin Luther who authored "On the Jews and their Lies". He was a blatant anti-Semite who's writings were an important source of inspiration for the Nazi hierarchy and directly contributed to the ugly antisemitism that was widespread in Germany.
Secondly, to say that Nazism and Communism is the ultimate expression of Liberalism is equally absurd. The goal of liberalism is to protect personal liberties and freedoms which in a Nazi or communist regime are eliminated. It is interesting that the majority of KKK and skinheads come from conservative neighborhoods in the southern US and not from liberal communities.
Thirdly, to say that we cannot denounce Pope Pius because Jews did not do enough to save Mormons in America is an irrational argument. One has nothing to do with the other. Pope Pius turned a blind eye and according to many facilitated the Nazis in the deportation and extermination of Italy's Jews. 19th century Jews in America were hardly in the position to save anyone. However, when Jews did have more influence in the US by the 20th century they were at the forefront of the Civil Rights Movement.
In conclusion, Mr Lapin I think you are the one who needs to learn some history.

Daniel Israel

Martin Luther laid the groundwork for Hitler's extermination of six million Jews
Date 08:07, 07-15, 10

Martin Luther expected the Jews to convert to his brand of Christianity. He aggressively courted them and when they refused to convert he lashed out at them,quoting all the negative statements in the Christian bible about Jews. He conducted a vicious campaign against them. Historians say that he and his followers laid the groundwork for the Holocaust. Anti-Semites are just as numerous among protestants as Catholics.Daniel Israel is absolutely correct.

Forget Luther
Date 07:11, 11-6, 10

What Rabbi Lapin was saying was that American Evangelical Protestantism which grew out of English Protestantism was untainted by gross antisemitism. Lutheranism never grew in England.
Also, you have to undestand, just as Catholics are different to Protestants, so are State sponsored protestants (Presbyterians and Lutherans) to protestnats such as congregationalists and baptists that reject state religion.(independants). These struggles were physically fought over in England in the mid 1600's. The eventual losers, the independents, fled to America and were parto of the catalyst for the seperation of Church and state and true religious freedom we have, that the world has not seen before or since. (except maybe Holland). This was the same old struggle carried over from England.

Note the difference was seen early between the independent church of Plymouth (pilgrim fathers)and the presbyterian(puritan) churches of Boston. though both may seem similar in theology (evangelical calvinist) they were very different in their politcal positions becusae of views on church state seperation.
The main politcal endpoint: the independent looks to his congregation : he doesnt try to make the whole country follow his beliefs through politcal measures. thus toleration of other religions who do not threaten is easier.
Paul Walmsley

the rabbi is right but the Jewish liberals and secular jewish establishment will dismiss him.
Date 05:06, 06-6, 11

Seems many Jews are liberal because,
even if successfull, can not shake the idea they are underprivileged and that somehow America is rooted in Christianity and therefore very bad and must be changed.

It is obviously a stupid position for the long term because, for all its deffects, the Christian founding fathers and their descendants did a fantastic job creating a free and prosperous, a country that enabled Jews to be freer and more prosperous than anywhere else in recorded history. Yet liberal Jews are hellbent on perfecting America to death.

When they finally succeed chaos will take over and guess what will happen to all Jews liberal and Orthodox? Yep, you got it right.

On the other hand many other Jews In the US are so concerned about Israel they put Israel ahead of the country they need to keep Israel alive and that too will..., yes you are right again.

Remember too Jews are pretty dum at anticipating and preventing antisemitism because for all their brain power in other areas they just do not make the coonection; the weaker the Anglo-Christian (Jewish in more ways than one)-Western European values of America the more disorganized, amoral and economically decadent will America become. We are already a good way down that road. It can still be reversed if enough Jews drop liberalism and become conservative Americans that put America's traditional values and roots at the forefront. Yes this means for example to play up the tremendous achievement of those Chistian Anglo Pilgrims that started the US. A country to which many Jews have made extraordinary contributions in many fields.

If so many hiper articulate libera Jews continue to vote and act effectively against the system it means they truly act as if they were self hating, for they will strengthen the very evil irrational forces they want to prevent; virulent antisemitis and hell for everybody.

I do not care for the.moral duperiotity of dead Jews. The us is sailing full speed, like the Titanic, towards a huge socio economic crisis. Like Germany in the 30s, a country can be full of Nobel Prize winners and hiperbright artists and hard working citizens yet become an economic basket case.

By the way, Jews have a terrible record anticipating anti semitism. In fact, it in the US where is likely to become violent, when many Americans eventually freak out about what has happened to the US.

Sure, we will condemn the violent antisemites but that will not bring back the dead. Besides, what sort of socieyy will the US become after violent antisemitism breaks out.

Jews should not fool themselved but antisemitygg

Victor lopex
F
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